Forums: Flash:

XML v XMLList?

Why the fuck is there a difference? And why can't I translate one to the other? The beauty of XML is it is a string of characters broken up by little less then and greater than characters on the keyboard!!! That's it! They're the same fucking thing.

So, just because you, ADOBE, decide one will be XML and one will be XMLList, don't fucking hold us back on translating the two back and forth. Oh My Fucking Lord I want to shoot Adobe.

xml = xmllist

XML is Fucking XML. I don't care how you decide to recast it. I don't get to decide the SOAP standard, so if you want to cast it as XMLList, fine but let me use the XML parsing on the damned data!! XML and XMLList should inherit methods from each other and NOT be completely separate as you've decided to do.

Oh my Fucking LORD!!

update:

It took just over an hour to figure it out in Flex because they have a WebService component. WTF? Why is it gone from Flash but Flex gets one?

Whoever said Flex was for real programmers is full of shit. Write some XML and let the compiler take care of it drawing it on the stage.....yeah that's real programming!! fuck I hate flash now...they give Flex guys tool the take away from Flash?

Anyway, I get the SOAP objects both ways now. It's still fucked that Flex has all these components and Flash doesn't. it takes someone 3 times the amount of time it takes a Flex guy because they don't have to write shit.

Perhaps instead of blowing your top, you did a little search, you'd find out that if you include rpc.swc, and framework.swc from the flex framework in your flash project, you have access to all the flex rpc/soap classes.

And another thing.

Originally posted by: Storm
XML v XMLList?

Why the fuck is there a difference? And why can't I translate one to the other? The beauty of XML is it is a string of characters broken up by little less then and greater than characters on the keyboard!!! That's it! They're the same fucking thing.
So, just because you, ADOBE, decide one will be XML and one will be XMLList, don't fucking hold us back on translating the two back and forth. Oh My Fucking Lord I want to shoot Adobe.

Ecma standard for E4X

E4X intentionally blurs the distinction between an individual XML object and an XMLList containing only that object.
To this end, all operations available for XMLList objects are also available for XML objects. Implementations that
extend E4X should preserve this constraint.

If you have a problem with the standard, take it up with ecma, instead of adobe, who are merely implementing the standard.

I'm just taking the piss lith....it helps.

And yes I know I can import them. The thing is you know I'm not a programmer, so until I fully understand the classes I use the documentation and I can't translate the skills from Flex into Flash quickly and getting all the functionality from importing those classes. Where my frustration lies is in that I'm having to build a project twice...once for our vendors still using AS2 and one for those using AS3......completely different so I have to do everything twice from scratch. Nothing is reusable. It would be nice to open the AS2 document, select AS3 as output and the WebService component would still work and I could make some small code changes for the new language requirements.

The thing the programmery types need to understand is they took tools away from us that we had in Flash. How hard would it have been, honestly, to update the WebServices component for the Flash IDE? Not hard at all. They chose not to. How hard would it be to include the .swc components in the IDE in an update to the Flash IDE? Not hard at all. They chose not to.

FWIW, don't take me too seriously. I'm doing all this in FlashDevelop, so I can usually figure it out. But unless you do it every day (code like you) we'd prefer just to take our existing skills and build on them, not throw them away just to learn new skills. I don't think Adobe really understands that.

man, you're right pissed off at me aren't you? nice

why are people defensive these days with their software companies like they're gods? Man, the Cakewalk guys are the same when anyone questions a decision about SONAR. They are vigilant like someone stole their baby.

All I'm saying is it's all great if they want to make things more "programmery" because I KNOW your skills very well. You understand "polymorphism," "inheritance," "andwhateverothertechwordsIdontknow," and that's completely cool. We don't and we've used Flash for years so we'd like the tools and skills we know to work when we're in a pinch and then we can expand our OOP later once the swf works as we expect.

Anyway, there's no reason getting upset lith. I'm just writing what I feel because I'm the only guy here with all the .NET guys so if I can rant I will. it makes me feel better because I can't just rip out my pictures of Your Mom and masturbate. The Russian guy already thinks I'm crazy!!

In all honesty, asking somebody to "learn new skills" 4 times in the last 10 years (i.e classic AS, AS1, AS2, and now AS3), is not excessive, especially considering the learning curve between each iteration is drastically lowered due to the similarity to its previous incarnation. ( the only considerable departure being between flash 4 wizard style coding and flash 5 manual scripting ).

I think in most cases if people actually played around with the code, and rtfm instead of throwing their hands up and calling adobe a bunch of fuckheads, they'd find the transition to be quite smooth, and eventually, sooner rather than later, never want to return to the old version of the language / player / ide.

Just sayin'.

[edit]

No i'm not pissed off, it's just that not a day goes by that i don't read someone complaining about something that can be fixed in a matter of minutes, or really isn't broken in the first place. I'm guilty of it myself quite often, especially in regard to flash / flex, but i try to remember to take my own advice and 9 times out of 10 there is a simple solution to be found within a few minutes.

[/edit]

while that's true and I'm on the rag because I'm here late tonight.....this isn't Day One of AS3 for me and I always read the documentation. hell I used to write curriculum for teaching Flash in college. I'm not dumb and I'm not lazy or any other type of person you might be comparing me with. You know me better than that from helping people on here. But as a Flash guy, I'm AMAZED that what took...I don't know....30 lines of AS code in Flash took maybe 10 in Flex because in Flex it took care of the little things for me using the WebServices component. In Flash there wasn't any little toy to take care of that for you. So, Flex guys consider themselves better "Flashers" than the Flashers. Now I know why (in this example)....Flex was WAY easier when it's the tool meant for the programmers. That's backwards.

You know I don't mind learning. And I already told you I have done this project in AS2, AS3 in Flash (FlashDevelop), and now AS3 in Flex (FlashDevelop). It works. I got it to work. i figured it out myself. I didn't figure it out with help from the forum. I learned it. But don't compare me to Mr Lazy when I'm having a little fun on the forum. Adobe could have put a little more effort into making sure the Flash IDE had what Flex had component wise. That's not too much to ask. And if you recall, Macromedia was never shy about letting us let them know what could be better. They always tried their best to implement that for us.

Originally posted by: Storm
Adobe could have put a little more effort into making sure the Flash IDE had what Flex had component wise. That's not too much to ask.

Then you would hear no end of complaints that the default swf size was 200k+ due to the size of the framework. A no win situation really.

Storm

XMLlist is like an Array (or list) structure so it is a special case of XML and can be mapped simpler to any list like structure. The same arguments apply to Sprites MovieClips, Number and Int, its just the limitation of a highly static typed language. Ecma is a political assembly so maybe they got it wrong

Components Fail, use flex or open source framework libraries.

JLM, the point is I received a SOAP event and Flash decided for me that it should be an XMLList not XML thereby meaning I couldn't parse through it using E4X but since XMLList doesn't automatically inherit the functions of XML I needed to bridge or translate that List into XML again when it was purely SOAP coming from the .NET guys. And since I'm trying to build a set of components where agencies can choose AS2 OR AS3 and have them work fairly simply for each language, I currently have two completely different methodologies and two sets of documents because I can't even reference the functions with the same syntax helping the AS2 peeps move to AS3 (long story and I don't want to explain this project any further...I'd just like to make things seamless where they can call my component in AS2 or AS3 with WebServices.functionName and I'll deliver the .NET SOAP data to their project.

Look, this was a fun little ranting thread I was having and now this turned into some sort of unnecessary debate. Let me have my moment right or wrong. I'm not asking for help on ANY of this.

The thing you don't understand is I didn't post this rant UNTIL after I got it FINISHED 3 TIMES!!! I didn't piss and moan in 5 minutes (as lith assumed) and then come on a forum and rant about it. I finished it 3 TIMES in three different methods then went back and questioned my processes and why it had to be as it was. I even considered jumping into HAXE as well for comparison! I didn't need help. I didn't need "Adobe did it soo perfectly" as answers. I want to be able to objectively question the thought processes......ECMA decided so we just followed.....

Well, you know what? (cue Walt) Bush decided and we all just followed. Fuck, there is never anything wrong with a little objective questioning ever.

no end of complaints that the default swf size was 200k

I concede. That is true. Macradobe never built small components. I will agree, but it would only add that to a movie I CHOSE to drag the WebServices component onto the stage for.

mapped simpler to any list like structure

something so simple.....yeah I don't know what that means. It's not even English. It's Programmery and simply speaking Programmery doesn't make it right. Designers AND developers need to work and communicate together.

use flex or open source framework libraries

yet another issue because people calling themselves flashers running around copy and pasting code that just works and calling themselves Flash Developers when they have no idea what they're doing.


ANYWAY.......
stupid fucking thread and I'm sorry I started it in my own jestful way.


btw, we won the finals of our hockey league so me and the Czech boys might have been into the sauce a little. It was a thrilling OT win. I scored two goals. I dedicated them to lith and jlm.

my point, don't be too defensive about my rant.

he he I was on your angle I just decided not to post my rant... on how design and dev are separated because its just too darn difficult for adobe to get flash to do them together, and to allows low entry point for javas/print designers.. it went on to about a billion things and so I just kept it short

honestly, that's why I just ranted. I had held it in because I'm supposedly retarded Flash-wise if I'm just not "OOPing like a madman" by now!! But I'm noticing lots of legitimate Flash coders even questioning certain things more and more now.

I'd really like to read your "billion things" essay rant.

an entertaining thread indeed. This is like some testing that I'm doing and how my emailed results are quite often misinterpreted .. to the point that a meeting of relevant stakeholders is made and everything is quickly cleared up in 1/2 hour of face to face discussion.
There is definitely a craft in conveying the written word to mean what it was intended. The other result of the way people interpret the written word is that the way they respond quite often shows their individual character.

.. yes I do enjoy reading threads not only for their technical value but for their entertainment value. Sometimes a bloke just has to get away from the seriousness of his own real world.

/rant